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Post by Otaku on Apr 11, 2008 9:38:12 GMT 8
New Horizon, pg.2
"I'm Tanaka Shin."
Here we go again....last name, first name.
I went to my JTE after class to discuss what he thought about the thing. Answer? "Culture". If I get any more Japanese culture in English class, I'm going to puke. He said that there has been a recent push, even in Korea, for this style of self-introductions. He said that people are respecting their culture.
I will buy the whole 'respecting culture' argument. I think it's cool to respect own's culture. However, I told him in English class he needs to respect 'English culture' and in English speaking countries, people do not introduce themselves last name first...with the exception of James Bond.
Agree? Disagree?
BTW, what is 'nationalism' and 'patriotism' in HIRAGANA, and is there a difference in meanings' nuances Japanese?
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Post by gumby on Apr 11, 2008 10:08:39 GMT 8
Otaku, I found a great way around this one, using the information I received from you! I told the teachers that New Horizon was the only one using this word order. Bingo, gives the JTEs more freedom on how to teach it. One of the best ways to bring about change in Japan is to point out how it is used in a similar situation in JAPAN (not abroad, as that doesn't count ....)
According to wikipedia (?) Chinese athletes have always used family name first. Japanese athletes still go with the English word order. There may be a push to change that in Japan, but as long as it is still the textbook minority, I'm going to try to find ways around it!
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Post by Otaku on Apr 11, 2008 10:27:50 GMT 8
As much as I hate to agree, you're right in stating that Japan has effectively proven it doesn't matter what happens outside of Japan but rather what is only similar to the Japanese culture. What I was trying to point out to my teacher was I don't care how Japanese, Chinese or Koreans introduce themselves in their own language. I just don't want them to embarass themselves in the English language and holding on for dear life to own's culture when speaking another language seems childish and pedantic. I think it would be pretty embarassing to be call Mr. Shin; It sounds ackward and weird. I'm not saying one should forget their own culture but when the culture is crammed into foreign language classes, I think that is a problem. I forgot to include in my last post that I actually drove my point home when I brought up the recent opening ceremony. During the ceremony, teachers had to introduce themselves to the new students and parents. I reminded my teacher that I understood last names are important in Japan, hence me introducing myself last name first. He basically shutup after that. ;D There's a big difference between retaining own culture and trying to impose it into anothers. I think this 'last name first' issue is one of those 'imposing' times.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 11, 2008 10:28:22 GMT 8
Actually I don't erally mind the thoe whole first name last and last name first thing. And on average I think it wouldn't matter much in conversational english either. WHile I know thats not how we do it, and English class so also teach English culture (isn't that the reason we're even here?) the name thing is just a minor detail that i wouldn't mind compromising for to change some of the bigger issues in the books. Also I think its becoming fairly common knowledge in the West that the asians like to say their last name first. So I'm pretty sure in an actual conversational setting (gasp!) the english speaker in question would at least figure out what the japanese kid's name was. If not anything else...
also nationalism in hiragana is ‚±‚Á‚©‚µ‚ガ and patriotism is@‚Ù‚¤‚±‚ as for nuances in meanings i don't know about japanese but i can tell you all about it in american
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Post by junkdna on Apr 11, 2008 12:09:04 GMT 8
I agree with Otaku, and I thought we had actually covered this before: when speaking any language, you go with their language order. So the NH textbook really burns my butt. Another thing I dislike, the capitalization of Japanese last names when in English. I have heard that they were taught that last names should be capitalized so that others know it is a last name. By whom? Commodore Perry? If all Japanese followed the above rule, there would be no reason for it.
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Post by Otaku on Apr 11, 2008 12:32:53 GMT 8
It's funny you mentioned capitalization of the entire last name because one of my JTEs just the other day said he thought it was popular in America. Granted, I haven't lived there for almost 5 years, but in all my research and talking with my friends, I haven't heard anything about this style being in the mainstream.
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Post by junkdna on Apr 11, 2008 14:30:37 GMT 8
I've never heard of it either. The first time I ever encountered it was in Japan.
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 15, 2008 15:08:24 GMT 8
Ha, they do that capitalization of the whole last name thing on the credits for the OC, maybe that's where he got it.
But yeah, we in Western cultures are pretty aware now of the last name-first thing in East Asian cultures, for instance everyone knows the name Kim Jong-Il, and I don't think anyone refers to him as Jong-Il Kim. I think regardless of which order a Japanese says his or her name, they're gonna get asked about it.
On the flip side of the cultural coin, I've almost completely forsaken my last name for life in Japan, it's just too complicated. I just tell people my first name and if they're curious I try and teach them my last name. They lose their curiosity pretty quickly.
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Post by Otaku on Apr 15, 2008 16:27:42 GMT 8
GOB, Would your last name be 'grumpy' or 'bastard'?
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