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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 11, 2008 10:13:16 GMT 8
I've found a few 'fun facts' that I have some issues with. These might be middling, but considering how much this site bashes Japanese misunderstanding of English and foreigners we might as well try hard to get their culture right:
- "The number 4 is unlucky. It means Ž€ (‚µ), death."
Just kind of a wording issue, but 4 does not mean Ž€, "death," it is homophonous with it. The word for four is written Žl, and is pronounced "shi," but is unrelated to the word Ž€ aside from its pronunciation.
- "Japanese households usually don't change the bathtub water until everyone has taken a bath."
Obviously put here for "Ooh, look how weird the Japanese are!" effect, but it omits the important fact that Japanese people wash themselves before they get in the bath. If you are aware of that then it's not nearly as an odd an idea, and in fact fairly economical.
Other than these I think this site is an amazing resource, don't get me wrong. Just needed to nitpick.
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Post by Otaku on Apr 11, 2008 11:26:29 GMT 8
Hey GOB (GrumpyOldBastard), First of all, welcome to the forum! You made interesting argumentations about the 'fun facts'. For you to even find those facts, means you have done some pretty extensive surfing on the site. I'm glad you are finding it useful. ;D In regards to the 'number 4' Fun Fact, you were correct in stating that the Japanese #4 (shi) does not have any direct correlation to the Japanese word for 'die' (shinu). However, that particular Fun Fact is referring the culture's connotative meaning, rather than the denotative one. The connotation of the Japanese #4 relates to its associative meaning within the culture...and then you will see the culture does connotatively define it as 'die'. An example of this cultural definition can be seen when looking at some parking lots in Japan. Not all, but some don't use the numbers 4 & 9 (9, being connotatively defined as 'kill') because of their negative associative meanings. That, in and of itself, shows there's a associative meaning between these two. It goes the same in our own cultures, too. If I were to ask you what the #13 means, you would most likely say: "Nothing." But, if I were to ask you about its connotive meaning, you would probably say: "Unlucky." Like you said before, the literal meaning of '4' does not mean 'die'. Maybe, this is a Fun Fact that will get changed in the future. Thanks for bring that up! In regards to the 'bath' Fun Fact, you were also correct, I was going for the 'shock-n-awe'. Obviously, cultural norms often sound strange when explained to another culture in the confines of 1-sentence. Given a paragraph, most strange cultural norms can be normalized. I guess I could change that particular heading to 'Fun Paragraph'. In regards to 'Japanese bashing', I think 'bashing' has a negative connotation to it, wouldn't you agree? This forum's purpose in not to bash a culture or language but to freely discuss hot topics and to come to a better understanding of each side. It's hard to sometimes get a feel for posters' tone via posts but I hardly think there any I-hate-Japan-so-I'm-going-to-bad-mouth-it posters on this rather small forum. Nobody is forced to stay in Japan so if there were truly 'bashers' on this forum, you would already heard people say things like, "Shutup, bitch! You aren't forced to be in this country and can go back anytime so shutup!" However, things like haven't been said because posters are not meaning to bash, but rather discuss. At least, in regards to the teaching forum. The open forum discusses a much broader range of topics, which are even more controversial but I would still argue 'bashing' doesn't include a controversial reponse if it has logical reasoning behind it. Anyways, this post was longer than I orignially meant it to be but hopefully you understand things have much more depth than they appear to on the surface? I look forward in reading your posts in the other forums!
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 11, 2008 12:06:01 GMT 8
Thanks!
I should have been more specific about the 'bashing'... I didn't mean the forums, I meant the actual site itself. I haven't read the forums a whole lot and I'm sure there's a breadth of opinions there. I'm talking about website itself, with grammar point examples like "English is a language that Japan is trashing" and things of that nature (Not that I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment, although I wouldn't quite put it in those terms). I'm totally with you on the frustration on dealing with Japanese perceptions of my native language and culture, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't happening the other way around also.
But yeah, thanks for taking my advice with a grain of salt, you're much more polite than other people I've met on the Internet. Good luck with the site.
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Post by Otaku on Apr 11, 2008 12:29:16 GMT 8
Aaahhh...you're talking about 'example sentences' on the site. You would be correct in that a lot of my frustrations stem from being constantly asked to slaughter my native language in the name of 'English education'.
I know exactly what page you are talking about, it's the main grammar page in the JHS section. Those example sentences will probably get changed in the future but for the time being, it is my personal opinion on Japan's English education system. Is it acceptable to write 'example sentences' like that? Yeah...thank God personal opinions are still legal! Will it hurt Englipedia's future image if I don't curve my personal opinions on a public webpage? Most likely. However, those comments are grammatically correct to the grammar target and my comments are not unfounded. I have merely exhausted every other means necessary to get things rolling to possibly change in the future. Can one foreigner really change Japan's English education system. Probably not, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try, hence Englipedia.
You have to understand, I already feel like I've sold out my own language building an entire JHS section around textbooks I highly dislike and don't agree with. Building this kind of site has forced to me to dive deep into the textbooks and really study the content being taught; my 'grammar-specific' comments are not unfounded...just rather pointed. But honestly, how much can you really bash someone for making those kinds of statements in the face them spending 1,000+ volunteer off-work hours building a resource that I feel is going to be extremely useful to Japan's public school English education system?
But still, thanks for chiming in about your concerns. I'm not ignorant and must constantly remind myself to be mindful of constructive criticism, so thank you for speaking up.
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