yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Jul 4, 2008 7:50:18 GMT 8
I got a question for you guys, about discipline in the classroom, JHS in particular. Yesterday I had class where half-way through a group of students in the back of the class started to just f*#k around and not do any work, now thats nothing to write home about, but they didn't just fall asleep on their desks or start talking to their neighbors. One girl actually got up hid in a corner with another and started to play their recorders together. On top of myself and the JTE TTing. (doesn't that sound sexual ) So at the time, I let the JTE handle it, she walked over and took the recorder away to much verbal abuse by the students. Now my school is known as a "bad school" so this behavior although not common is certainly not rare, so I just kinda shrugged it off as I'm sure my JTE did too. However after that the kids in question got their friends in the back rows all started to stand up and draw pretty awful caricatures of my JTE writing her name under them. Or in English writing "the JTE's name and idiot, or KILL. When she would go to tlk to 2 or three of the students misbehaving a couple ore would sneak behind her and mimic slapping her about the head. Or two girls came with a tape measure and measured the legnth between the top of her pants to the seat of her pants. And the paraded around the room saying 16cm. Meanwhile I stood in front of the class seething, cause I could see that my JTE (who I have a friendly relationship with) was actually getting hurt by these students. But I didn't know what I could to stop it. So I ultimately just sat there in impotent anger waiting for the class to end. Do we as ALT's have any leeway to yell at the kids, like to sit down! and go back to work! As much as I love my position in my amazingly cushy and well paid company, I didn't really want to be fired by stepping over lines I didn't know existed. So when this happens again (and it will) you guys have any advice on how to deal with it, or should I just try and turn a blind eye to it again and bemoan the utter lack of a functioning classroom in my school?
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Post by junkdna on Jul 4, 2008 11:17:25 GMT 8
I have been in your situation. Or rather, I should say, I have been in your JTE's situation, that is the kids hated me to the point where they simply refused to function in class and disturbed it as much as they could. Some even got into my face. Well, I can tell you, I don't take crap from kids, but you have to remember, they are just that: kids.
Kids with stupid ideas running through their heads and uncontrollable hormones thrashing their hearts and minds around like an abusive parent. More to the point, the bad kids usually HAVE abusive home lives, that's why they act up in the first place.
Take the moral high ground and keep calm no matter what. I would say it's safe to say something to the kids, but the most I would ever say to them is 'alright, let's sit down', etc. Ignore their actions, unless they physically attack the teacher there is nothing I would do.
And yes, I have stepped between students trying to physically attack a teacher. Offering up a barrier the student couldn't get passed by being solid as a rock, the student backed off and left.
The worst thing you can do to these kids, is stare at them with a pitying look and offer them no resistance or reaction. It will drive them crazy that they can't affect you, but sooner or later, they will also stop trying all together because they know they can't get a rise out of you.
That's the best advice I can offer you.
OH, and I CAN tell you that you are able to defend yourself in a physical altercation not started by yourself. By law. You can physcially restrain a person attacking you. Even children. But you must not harm them in any way, and be ready for said child to cry foul (call the police). But many times the police are already familiar with these kids. They know the score.
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Post by Otaku on Jul 4, 2008 11:28:39 GMT 8
Some good advice JD gave. The only thing I would add is, as you are aware of, Japan culture is passive aggressive. Being passive aggressive might be one of the ways to handle things.
You could walk out of the room and go back to the teacher's room. You could just sit down in the teacher's chair and look out the window. You could give the disruptive students a I'm-going-to-maim you stare, etc. There's lots you can do in a passive form.
I'm not saying DO THESE THINGS, I'm just passing along options.
I've never had to work in that type of environment but I have disciplined students and even told teachers to step away from their students because the teachers were hindering the English classroom and intimidating students to the point of tears.
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Post by rollypop on Jul 4, 2008 14:40:40 GMT 8
It`d be great to have the JT handle discipline, but the JT has to come to class, first. Two weeks ago my JT for a 6th-grade class just didn`t show, and the class was chaos...basically everyone having a conversation with their groupmates. I told them "please be quiet" in Japanese, not even sure if it`d be loud enough for them to hear me over the din of their own conversation and then I had 66 eyes all staring at me, shocked... at least they were quiet, I suppose.
The other really bad class was 4th graders - that morning kyoto-sensei came to me and said, "Oh, the teacher`s going to be out at meetings during 5th period English, is that okay? Thanks." And I was like, "uhm..." Sure enough, some kid tried repeatedly to hit me in the gnads with the answer-the-question ball (and wondered why he wasn`t getting called on anymore), and then started yelling rude questions in Japanese. I couldn`t get him to quiet down, everyone started getting rowdy, eventually we shifted to we`re-doing-flashcards-until-you-all-calm-down.
Not fun. They refused to even play the game I had. Refused to play the game? What? I wasn`t even sure what to do with that.
Sitting and waiting for them to calm down works if there`s a few kids who are bold enough to tell the other ones hey-Eigo-no-sensei-is-waiting-come-on-guys. But in chaos?
I have been tempted to walk out of the room before. Is that actually an option? I`ve got to find some sort of strategy because if my JTs are going to continue to not show up, I`ve got to find something that works for bad days like those. Even in the classes where they are there, sometimes they stand and do nothing...one time there was a girl being ijime`d, and the teacher just kept walking right past her. wtf? I was livid.
Okay, done ranting. Sorry about that.
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Post by junkdna on Jul 7, 2008 7:40:33 GMT 8
Don't walk out of the classroom. If something goes wrong, like children throwing themselves or others out the 3rd storey window, you will feel bad. Get pissed off in English and start yelling instead, and I mean in an overblown, made for tv drama way. That will scare the shit out of them. Works like a charm with me everytime. ES kids are easy to beat into submit.
But first and foremost tell your teachers now you will NEVER teach a class for them when they are not there with you. I believe it's a BIG NO-NO for you to be in the room without the teacher because you are not a certified teacher (in Japan). Make it clear that you will not do it again and stand your ground.
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Post by prncsfungi on Jul 7, 2008 8:09:25 GMT 8
Junk is absolutely right about you not being allowed to be alone in the class without a JTE present. We are ALTs (at least I am anyway lol) Assistant Language Teachers. The company that I work for actually has it as a mandatory procedure that we must walk out of the classroom if a JTE is not present. Now do I agree with that procedure?...not really..and I have to say even when abandoned by the JTE i've never actually done it...but there is a legal basis for this policy to exist. Should a child fling themselves out a window or do other serious bodily harm..the company does not want to be in anyway liable. Having an ALT alone in the classroom teaching is illegal and would not only be pinned on the school but the company as well. If you are standing in the hall way when the shit hits the fan...legally speaking...it is not yours nor the companies fault..rather only the school's. So in short...if they give you notice in advance that the teacher will not be there and want you to teach alone...remind them that there is a law making that not possible.
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Post by rollypop on Jul 8, 2008 13:31:20 GMT 8
Should be common sense, so why do so many ALTs have JTs wandering off in the middle of lessons?
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Post by junkdna on Jul 8, 2008 14:26:28 GMT 8
Gooooooooooooooooood question.
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Post by dickflem on Jul 9, 2008 15:46:56 GMT 8
I've been taking 2 year JHS 2nd year solo classes since the start off spring. It's in my base school, where the kids are generally great and respect me and the other teachers.
I'm aware that it's illegal. I wouldn't be doing it except the teacher who devised this plan is not only my supervisor, but he's also the head of English teachers in my city. If I point blank refuse to do it, I'm not sure what the reaction will be. Also , I've been enjoying the classes (when they work well).
Anyway, getting back to the original topic of this thread; I have a school where some of the students are very badly behaved.
I don't mind if a student sleeps in class, I'd prefer it if they were awake, but if they aren't disturbing the other students, then I'm ok with it.
The students I do have a problem with are the ones who get up, walk around, shout across the class to their friends, continuously talking when they should be listening, and the ones who just want to take the piss out of other students, the teacher and me.
We have one 3rd year class which has about 5 boys who continually try to wreck it for the other students. Not just in English, most other subjects too.
I used to do the same and observe the JTE becoming a verbal punch bag, getting hurt and embarrassed in front of a class of 15 year olds.
We (the JTE and I) had a long sit down and discussed what we could do.
The first thing I did was learn the names of each of the boys. (I teach at 9 schools, so I don't know most of my student's names).
When the JTE is teaching, I walk round the class room, if one of the students is messing about I'll stand beside them, not looking at them, but close enough for me to be in their space.
If they don't stop talking or messing about, I'll look at them, not too much eye contact, and say their name, give them an expression that says, "come on, I expect more". I may gesture to them to listen or look at the board or whatever.
If they still won't shut up, I might place a hand on their shoulder and repeat their name, this time being strong and assertive. At this point I'll use a lot of eye contact, the bigger boys don't back down sometimes, but if you become locked in, don't back down. You can make it into a joke staring competition if you want, but don't break away.
If we have time at the end of class, I'll make an effort to check if any of the boys need help with the work we have done that day (if they've actually tried to do any of it).
Positive rewards are important too. Even if they don't do any work, I will still thank them if they are quiet and don't disturb other students.
As my Japanese is still terrible, if I talk to them, I will ask them rhetorical questions. Like; "you're smart, so why don't you want to study?" or "you like talking, but you never try talking in English, why? too difficult for you?" "Do you want to go to high school next year? what about the entrance exam?"
In the same way, when I'm doing the majority of teaching, my JTE will (usually) 'go on patrol' and try to do the same with the boys who cause trouble.
We're starting to see some results. One of the 'gang' has began to listen (but not write yet), and some of the others are being less disruptive.
As teachers the most important thing we've established is a mutual support and sense of control over the class. Eve if it all goes wrong and we have a bad class, we still support each other through it.
Our new motto is "there's always hope" and we have a laugh when we need to resort to saying it like an affirmation to get us through those tough days.
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Post by junkdna on Jul 10, 2008 7:26:33 GMT 8
Good job.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Jul 10, 2008 8:02:54 GMT 8
Yea, nice work, thats an exalting example of JTE + ALT cooperation.
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Post by junkdna on Jul 10, 2008 12:26:01 GMT 8
BTW, my wife, a buddy and I were speaking about this last night, and she said, no matter WHO attacks you, if the attack is LIFE-THREATENING, you have the right to defend yourself, even to the point where your attacker is killed. Obviously such defense would be deeply scrutinized, as one would expect.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
|
Post by yopparaisaru on Jul 10, 2008 13:56:33 GMT 8
What if you yell "They're comin right for us!" first. Cause if thats so I'm totally driving by my Elementary school after school today. "Thy're comin right for us!"...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud...thud
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Post by junkdna on Jul 11, 2008 8:36:20 GMT 8
"It was a run-by fruiting!"
"Oh! Stop chasing me! I'm so full of choco-late!"
10 DNA points each if you can guess the different references (by name and character).
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Jul 11, 2008 9:48:28 GMT 8
The first one is from Mrs. Doubtfire, i think by Mrs. Doubtfire. During the restuarant scene deshou...?
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Post by junkdna on Jul 14, 2008 9:17:52 GMT 8
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, so close. Mrs. Doubtfire (in both cases) is correct, but the scene is wrong. I'll still give you 5 DNA points.
Anyone on the second one?
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Post by regardo on Nov 19, 2008 8:56:46 GMT 8
The Simpsons. Uter, the swiss exchange runs from Homer who is chasing the poor so-full-of-chocolate-boy with a towel.
original quote: "Don't make me run, I'm full of chocolate!" episode: "Lisa on Ice"
________ ...look, that kid's got bosoms! Who's got a wet towel?
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Post by junkdna on Nov 19, 2008 9:34:19 GMT 8
BINGO!
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