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Post by rollypop on Nov 6, 2008 13:06:31 GMT 8
So, yesterday during an activity, I noticed a kid using the phrase, "I like a tiger." I corrected the student, explained why we used "I like tigers," and moved on...and noticed another student making the same mistake. And another. And another. Actually, it was the whole class.
A little later, my JTE, noticing that there were some kids using "I like tigers" and some kids using "I like a tiger," wrote on the board the correct structure for them in his beautiful script.
I like a tiger.
It took a lot of willpower not to speak up or beat my head against the wall, but I did it for you, Englipedia. After class, I approached him with a student paper and diplomatically said that a lot of students had written, "I like a tiger," but we usually said "I like tigers" in English. His reply?
"Oh, but I taught them, "I like a tiger.""
"But..."
So, what do I do, Englipedia? I don`t want to make him lose face in front of the other teachers (ie, discuss with him in the teacher`s room) as they already have kind of a shaky opinion of the guy`s English, but I can`t really discuss it in the classroom either. Worse, I found out he`s correcting my younger JTE`s (correct) grammar and having HER teach her students the wrong things. Am I just going to have to lay the School House Rock smackdown and tell him he is *wrong* or is there a more diplomatic way of doing this? Where would you do it? Hallway?
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Post by jed on Nov 6, 2008 16:07:40 GMT 8
hhmmm? thats a tough one of course you are right, in that his English is wrong but he holds the power he obviously doesn't want to teach proper English so I don't really know what you can do (without putting your head on the line)
Does he do this kind of thing often? or a oncer?
hhhmmm?
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Post by Otaku on Nov 6, 2008 20:19:58 GMT 8
Personally, I think you could handle this correction on your own without bringing anyone else into it. That could result in severing all future working relations. I would go to him when nobody else is around and once again explain that in the future, please don't make that same mistake because it's not right. Impact the point by incorrectly writing the stroke order (‚Ђ«‚½‚¢)of a kanji and asking him if this is okay. He'll most definitely say 'no'. Then tell him it's the same in English. A mistake is a mistake and there is nothing correct about it. For a couple of references: owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/ (scroll down to the bottom, there's a section labeled 'Omission of Articles'. One of the categories is sports. Tell him this extends to animals, food, etc.) At the end of the day, YOU'RE RIGHT and he's WRONG. If he doesn't respect you are trying to correct him with nobody else around, then you've done all you can do. If this happens, I would keep correcting the students when they follow his misguidance. This would be the passive approach of handling the situation. For the aggressive approach, write both sentences on a piece of paper and go ask another JTE which sentence is correct...but make sure he's within ear shot distance.
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Post by MES Mark on Nov 6, 2008 21:38:06 GMT 8
I'd say you are right to correct the teacher. He needs to admit his error and let the students know he made a mistake. It happens to every teacher. The math teacher might make a mistake. That doesn't make him less competent.
Of course, face is a very important thing in Japan. The teacher must always be right and you have to balance that with logic. I had a JTE teach the whole class 'He has a running nose.' I pointed out the mistake quitely before we got to it, but she told me that's what it said in the book she copied it from. I shrugged my shoulders and modeled 'He has a running nose!' everyone repeat after me! Afterward, I told her that it was indeed 'runny' and either she copied it wrong or the book was mistaken.
Anyway, that was not a big deal in my situation and the teacher generally respected my opinion and for the most part not only listened to me but let me run the class. However, your grammar point is really important.
You might point out the correct version to the teacher and maybe you can just leave it with he'll no longer teach that mistake. It would be best for him to admit the mistake and tell the class, but he might not do that. If he doesn't I think it's well within your rights to let him know that it makes you look bad if he underminds your teachings. "I taught them the correct version and then you wrote on the board 'I like a tiger.' It makes me look bad if you teach them something else.'
That doesn't mean he'll do anything but that will let him know in the subtle Japanese way that you were offended and disrepected in the previous class and in the future you'd like him to be more receptive to your input.
Tough deal all around, but as I've told Patrick before, "we aren't saving lives here."
Do what you can. Don't tread (too hard) on any toes. Have a good time and remember that we teach what should be an elective.
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Post by Otaku on Nov 7, 2008 6:29:06 GMT 8
First of all, welcome to the forum, Mark!
Reading over Mark's post made me think of something I told a student a couple years ago when he corrected an English mistake I made. I told him, "Both of us are aren't perfect; we both make mistakes. The only difference between you [the student] and I is that I already know the information being taught. We are both infallible."
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Post by raindrop on Nov 7, 2008 8:09:55 GMT 8
*gasp* I always thought it was "I have a running nose."!!! And yes, that's what my book said! And I've taught that to my students for 7yrs...................... If I were him, I'd want you to correct me. If you didn't then, he would never know that's incorrect - and he needs to be professional and not teaching his students wrong English.( like I've been doing.) Ahhhhhh!! Just tell him casually... I'm sure you'd be appreciated.
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Post by junkdna on Nov 7, 2008 8:15:16 GMT 8
I would correct the gentleman too, as subtly as possible. If it doesn't work, know that SOMEWHERE along the line, the students who continue to study English will catch on to the mistake. (For those who don't, it won't matter as they'll have forgotten how to say their names within the first few weeks of ditchdigging anyway.) Remember, neither you nor your wacko JTE are the last teachers your kids will study English with. Don't lay so much responsibility-come-grief at your own feet.
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Post by junkdna on Nov 7, 2008 8:18:20 GMT 8
If he doesn't I think it's well within your rights to let him know that it makes you look bad if he underminds your teachings. undermines -- dictionary.reference.com/search?q=underminesoh the irony. welcome to the forum. =)
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Post by dickflem on Nov 7, 2008 9:24:55 GMT 8
I would definitely try to correct him. Though saving face is important in Japan, teaching correct English is also important enough for their government to employ us lot.
That being said, I have a JTE who doesn't take me correcting him kindly. It's got to the point where he's demanded that I teach incorrect English (especially plurals) and I point blank refuse to do so in class. I just continue saying it as it should be.
I have tried the diplomatic approach but I think it has failed partly because he doesn't want to change, and partly because we don't have a good working relationship. Funny that, we're meeting today (during my FREE TIME) to discuss a demonstration lesson for other teachers next week.
My advice is to be tranquil but firm. Smile a lot and make sure he knows that while you make light of his grammatical shortcomings you respect him as a person and a teacher.
Otaku's kanji suggestion is a good idea. A bit of role reversal is a good tool for highlighting someone's problems which they them self haven't yet recognised.
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Post by dickflem on Nov 7, 2008 9:29:11 GMT 8
A bit of role reversal is a good tool for highlighting someone's problems which they them self haven't yet recognised. Is this correct grammar?
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Post by junkdna on Nov 7, 2008 10:26:28 GMT 8
remember the old adage: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
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Post by Otaku on Nov 7, 2008 11:00:52 GMT 8
A bit of role reversal is a good tool for highlighting someone's problems which they them self haven't yet recognised. Is this correct grammar? no, 'recognised' is spelled with a 'z' ... ;D Personally, I would say, "...which they haven't yet recognised."
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Post by redpanda on Nov 12, 2008 10:11:34 GMT 8
My JTE in Hakata last year: "Do you like an apple?" I never said a word to him, but I just spoke to the kids in proper English hoping he'd catch it. I'd either say, "Would you like an apple?" or "Do you like apples?"
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Post by rollypop on Nov 12, 2008 12:13:52 GMT 8
Update: My younger JTE has dealt with the problem by changing the worksheets, saying "oh no, this grammar is too hard for the students in my class...I will have to teach them `I like tigers.`" : S
LOL. : D Still working on the other JTE, though.
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Post by redpanda on Nov 13, 2008 23:39:21 GMT 8
Be indirect. Use the sentence correctly until he notices.
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Post by redpanda on Feb 3, 2009 1:16:54 GMT 8
All year, my JTE has been hiding the teacher's manual from me. I finally decided to stop suggesting application activities. So after a couple of incredibly boring lessons, she realized that they were useful for invigorating the students. She told me of one that "This book suggests..." She waited until we had stepped outside of the teacher's room. Is there some reason why she can't use the teacher's manual? Why the need to be outside of the kyoto sensei's eartshot when using the teacher's manual?
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paul
E
I actually luv the "other" football...lol!
Posts: 10
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Post by paul on Feb 3, 2009 8:23:03 GMT 8
All year, my JTE has been hiding the teacher's manual from me. I finally decided to stop suggesting application activities. So after a couple of incredibly boring lessons, she realized that they were useful for invigorating the students. She told me of one that "This book suggests..." She waited until we had stepped outside of the teacher's room. Is there some reason why she can't use the teacher's manual? Why the need to be outside of the kyoto sensei's eartshot when using the teacher's manual? Ok couple of questions for you....... ;D How old is the teacher in relationship to you? Older/Younger? What textbook are you using and can YOU read and understand the Japanese that is invariably written in the teachers manual? (Depending on the textbook the only thing that could assist you in reading the teachers manual in the first place is whether or not the dialogue sections that are usually accompanied on the cd are written there or not, and a few other points. Some texts teachers manuals have all the Japanese translated into English others not so.)What do you need the teachers manual for in the first place if you are looking for communication activities I have found through experience that the teachers manual is probably the last place I would want to look for any ideas? Is your JTE a full time hired JTE or a contracted or hourly waged teacher? Is there a possiblity that she has notes written in the manual that she doesnt want you to read? Is it possible that she is just stubborn and doesnt want you to take her security pacifer textbook away from her because she might get lost in the process? Seriously though do you REALLY need the manual to create class activities? I am sorry but I hope not......heck that is what this site is for right?
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Post by kebunsha on Apr 26, 2009 10:13:02 GMT 8
That teacher's manual is a mystery here in Kurume, Fukuoka. I keep trying to get my own copy of it for both books. One elementary school was kind enough of make a call in to order one on my behalf. After three weeks of waiting, the asst principal of of the elementary school called me back and said Im sorry, we got the message that it cannot be ordered. The BOE has issued a the Japanese teachers text in exact quantities to each HRT of the respective grades and one for the school office. They school kindly offered to copy the entire book for me if I would like. I won't ask them to do that though. I think that is totally ridiculous.
Do I NEED a Japanese teacher's manual to do what I am assigned? The answer is no. I feel I need to have one to "thoughtfully" consider my tasks in the lesson and to have a full understanding of where the HRT is planning from. I have 20 years experience teaching from age 3 through adults, high school and 6 years in the universities and can read Japanese. Yes, I could really use the book. I have plenty of downtime at the Junior High at my desk with a lot of material making tools. I could be of help. I would also like the luxury of warning the non-English speaking HRTs of mistakes and difficult English.
I am thinking it might be in the design to make sure the ALT doesnt get a copy of it and the ALT is easier to manage walking in clueless.
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