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Post by Otaku on Nov 10, 2008 12:23:48 GMT 8
Only in Japan, can you find a non-experienced ALTs who are paid more than veteran ALTs.
I understand that the JET Program is government funded so it has more money to dish out than private English companies, but why is it that an ALT who completes the JET Program and wants to continue working as an ALT in Japan is paid less?
These JET-completed ALTs have job experience and a higher Japanese language acquistion than the newbie off the boat. However, unless they can find a private position where they work directly for a BoE, they have to take a cut in pay, pay more out for rent, and a decrease in support from the employer.
This all makes no sense to me. So, why would an ALT subject themselves to this kind of treatment? 1.) they like the job; 2.) they like traveling; 3.) the job has a decent pay for coming straight out of college; 4.) they have a spouse who is Japanese.
However, in spite of all of these reasons, it's still not fair that veteran ALTs who know the job are paid and treated less than that of the new ALT.
In the words of Chris Rock in the movie Head of State, "That ain't right!"
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Post by junkdna on Nov 11, 2008 7:49:07 GMT 8
Damn straight. If I didn't have a wife and son, I would be back in the States working the translation angle or exploiting my skills for big bucks. As it is, I might as well be working at MickeyD's.
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Post by Otaku on Nov 11, 2008 8:06:33 GMT 8
Damn straight. If I didn't have a wife and son, I would be back in the States working the translation angle or exploiting my skills for big bucks. As it is, I might as well be working at MickeyD's. I don't know, McD's might be a step up... ...at least there, there's no chance of being kanchoed.
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Post by matt on Nov 11, 2008 13:57:12 GMT 8
Well, with JET, even though it's a 'government program', the ALTs' salary isn't funded by the national government. The ALTs are paid by their BoE, therefore more and more BoEs are going private with companies like Intercrap, who are cheaper for a BoE to pay than to pay the JET Program's required ALT salary.
The thing is, being an ALT is not really a typical, specialized, or truly needed job. Anyone can be an ALT. There's nothing really special about the work we do, therefore it doesn't command the pay that we would like it to. If we, ALTs, were genuinely needed, and our skills were something which are and specialized (inotherwords, only we could do our job and no one else), then we would indeed command a much higher salary. And on top of that, there would only be a few of us because it would require a special skill. But as it is, we don't even have to be proficient in the language of this country we're teaching in, or have a degree in teaching, or have a specialty in English or something, in order to work here.
So it is, in a way, kind of like McDonald's. But imagine the McDonald's in an exotic place. On your free time you can go explore, and do other stuff.
I'm probably stepping on some toes here, and I don't mean to offend. But this is just how I see it. Anyone see it differently?
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Post by junkdna on Nov 12, 2008 9:39:25 GMT 8
Oh no, I see it exactly like that. In fact, I see the decline of ALT (both JET and non) programs within ten years. We AREN'T needed, and the sooner Japan catches on to this, the better. Unfortunately, I don't think Japan will catch on for the right reason -- that being that they can actually do the job themselves if they just had the confidence as a culture.
As for spending free time exploring and having fun, it can wear thin, but yes, that is the perfect reason for fresh out of college grads to join JET. But this is not a job for the experienced. And therein lies the rub. IT SHOULD be a job for the experienced -- experienced teachers who know what they are teaching. ...Oh vicious circle, your cruelty knows no bounds.
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Post by Otaku on Nov 12, 2008 11:52:03 GMT 8
Junkdna, You talk about a 'vicious circle'. I agree whole-heartedly that ALTs would not be needed if the Japanese English teachers had more confidence of course mixed with some better English skills, which would mean using the money they save on paying ALTs and sending their Japanese English teachers abroad to study. However, unless there is more intensive English training for these English in-country, I think sending their teachers overseas to study would be risk to the continuity of their culture? You can't send someone to another country to live for 6months to a year and not expect them to bring some of the culture back with them. If they bring it back, chances are it will creep into the classroom. I'm not saying this would be a bad thing, but as our situations already show, there doesn't seem to be much place for non-Japanese culture in the English classroom. Now, one way to rid the foreign culture from the Japanese studying abroad would be to wash their brains once they come back into the country. It would be similar to what they do with homestay students upon returning to Japan from abroad. However, until the day ALTs are kicked out of the country and replaced, even at McDonalds, they have different job positions with different pay ranges. I have heard of a manager at McDonald's who is paid less than the average line employee.
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Post by junkdna on Nov 12, 2008 12:16:44 GMT 8
Well, one of the things I see contributing to the decline of the ALT system is all the young teachers who actually get good educations. These teachers DO NOT need to be experts at the language in as far as knowing everything like a native. We've all met them, and more often than not, they are our favorite teachers. They are usually under 40 and they often bring an enthusiasm for teaching the language that can't be beat. The numbers of these teachers are on the rise. The younger Japanese are putting up a good fight I think, and though this country may never enjoy fluency like in other countries, I think things will improve slightly.
I agree with your thinking. I think would be English teachers should have to go to training for several weeks out of the year wherein they take classes in English and only English, and that native speakers should head up such programs. JICA/JOCA uses such methods when sending their reps overseas. What do you say you and I join forces and start the ETT (English Teacher Training) Program? We will put real power into the hands of the Japanese instead of proxies (JETs).
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Post by rollypop on Nov 12, 2008 12:18:16 GMT 8
Whoa, whoa, what?
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Post by regardo on Nov 19, 2008 17:54:06 GMT 8
matt: JETs are never paid by the BoE, as far as I know. Elementary and JHS JETs are governmentaly funded, whereas SHS JETs are paid by the provincial government. The later are the ones that get exchanged by Intercrapers (-I know they are nice people and they need the money-). It seems provincial governments are running out of money... haha, my ass... somebody is filling his pockets with JET-money...
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Post by rollypop on Nov 20, 2008 13:34:33 GMT 8
BoEs don`t pay JET ALT paychecks? My bank book directly says the city "ƒLƒ‡ƒEƒCƒNƒJ" pays it.
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Post by regardo on Nov 20, 2008 13:58:56 GMT 8
That might be, but the BoE gets every dime reimbursed by the national government. I was told so by my supervisor in the BoE. I think they just write that in the JET guide or where ever we heard or read it from to make you think: "All those poor farmers in my inaka are paying so much so I can be here and teach their children good English! I will work extra-hard!". Hell, I even thanked the parents in my entry speech for spending the big bucks and employing a JET and not some guy from a private company. They all laughed at me and said: "We're not paying anything for you." ...ok, I'm exaggerating, but it went almost that way... I admit, I could be totally wrong with all this. I haven't seen any written prove.
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Post by matt on Nov 20, 2008 20:22:21 GMT 8
regardo: Like Rollypop said, in my bankbook it does say that my town's BOE is the one that actually puts the money into my bank account. I don't really know whether or not they get reimbursed for it, to be honest. Prefectual ALTs get paid by the prefecture and regional ALTs get paid by their town/city BOE. I'm sure that somewhere along the line some debts get passed on up the ladder until it hits the national level, but I'm not sure that it specifically includes ALT salaries. I could be wrong, but this is as far as I know.
What's really funny, is that a teacher at my school is always surprised that I like anko (the sweet bean paste that often gets put into 'Japanese sweets'). When I first got here, I didn't like the stuff, and everyone said 'yappari' (meaning that it's what expected of me, being foreign and all). But then the more I tried it, the more I liked it. My taste for it had changed about 4 months after I got here, and that was just about two years ago. So every time someone brings omiyage with anko in it, I eat it up (cuz I like it a lot), and this teacher always asks me (EVERY time) whether or not I like anko. And she's ALWAYS surprised when I say that I like it. This teacher isn't someone who I rarely see or know. This is the school nurse who I see everyday at school, who has invited me over to eat with her family multiple times, who I have gone to matsuris with, and have had extensive conversations with while at school. So why does she always act surprised to learn, again and again, that I like anko. Does she truly forget? Is she just trying to make conversation? Or is it something else? And she is not the only teacher who is like this at my school. The point is, I no longer believe what most people say to me at school about such things as paychecks, bonuses, who does what with who, and anything that is not directly related to the classes that I'll be 'teaching' (if you can call it that) that day. So who really knows who ultimately pays us JET ALTs?
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Post by regardo on Nov 21, 2008 7:14:19 GMT 8
just to be a nag. for my theory would speak, that there are less and less SHS-JETs. I even think that this year all new JETs became JHS- or ES-ALTs. All SHS-JETs I know are old and grey and step by step being replaced by Intercrapers. But you're definitely right: "Never believe a word they say!" So, how do we find out what's really going on?
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Post by rollypop on Nov 21, 2008 12:50:34 GMT 8
...Isn`t that always the question.
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Post by regardo on Dec 18, 2008 13:18:47 GMT 8
It's not proof, but look what i found over at genkienglish.com. www.genkienglish.net/articles.htmCheck out the the last point in the "Things for JETs (Japan Exchange and Teaching Programme Teachers)" section: " Page from the CLAIR website that shows ALTs' money comes from Tokyo, not from your city or town! Update: They've taken the page down!"
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Post by junkdna on Dec 19, 2008 9:34:51 GMT 8
Things are changing. They have been for a while now. I have seen no less than a change in my contract every year I have been an ALT. That's six years and six changes. In my opinion, there will be less JETs in Japan by 2020 than within the first 10 years of the program. Japan is needing ALTs less and less; this is a good thing. (Plus I think a backlash at the overall way Japanese study English through Eikaiwa and ALTs is coming, especially if this economic downturn goes HANJIMA O DEYO nasty.) What that will do for student English? Nothing. I don't really see ALTs as a big benefit. To the students ALTs = playtime, not chance to improve my English.
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