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Post by raindrop on Nov 25, 2008 12:39:19 GMT 8
I've been teaching this for a while now and it's difficult for my adult students to define what's countable and what's not... so I tell them, "you cannot count any kinds of drink or liquid, or some food that you cannot eat as a whole... e.g. cabbage or chicken.., you don't eat the whole thing, do you?" And then they ask "what about a watermelon?" they also don't get why "candy" and "fish" is not countable.
What's the easiest way to explain this? Any suggestions?
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Post by junkdna on Nov 25, 2008 14:21:01 GMT 8
frankly, you just have to tell them to remember. that's really all there is to it.
unfortunately there are times in language learning that you just have to say to yourself or to your students: there is no why and there is no trick, just learn it.
that said, i think you are on the right track, but dont wrack your brains trying to figure it out. remember, teaching is a two-way street. the students have to take responsibility for learning as well.
my wife does this to me all the time. and i either learn what she tells me, or get crucified the next time i screw up in front of her. =)
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Post by Otaku on Nov 25, 2008 14:22:27 GMT 8
Raindrop, I snagged this from mes-english's site. He laid out some explanations he called 'Markisms'. I bought his reasoning so I'll pass them along to you. NOTE: I did edit the explanation in hopes to make it easier to read.
C=countable NC=non-countable
As far as eating the object: Generally speaking, if it's something a single person would eat entirely, then it's C noun: cherries, oranges, apples, bananas, pears, etc. If it's something one person generally only eats a portion of in a setting, it's a NC noun: watermelon, steak, chicken, cake, pizza, lemon, lime, etc.
As far as handling the item: They can all be C because they're dealing with the object as a whole and on a scale of multiples. --'The clerk spent all day stacking watermelons.' --'I bought six pizzas for the party.' --'I put the grapefruits in the fridge.'
As far as the taste: They are all NC. --'I like cherry (soda).' --'I like grape (ice cream).'
As far as variations of the same thing: They are all C. For example, there are several different breeds of watermelon available at the buffet counter. The host might ask 'Did you like the watermelons?'
Finally the exceptions: Here are some things that could be counted but it would be pointless: grass, rice, hair, corn (maybe corn here because western culture tends to strip the corn kernels from the cob and eat it that way - I'm reaching here.)
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Post by jed on Nov 25, 2008 15:51:03 GMT 8
well done Otaku!
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Post by raindrop on Nov 25, 2008 18:03:28 GMT 8
thanks for the advice, junk. Yeah, I often tell them that whenever I get stuck with the answers - I guess it's difficult to do for students who just cannot move on until they get it...
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Post by raindrop on Nov 25, 2008 18:07:56 GMT 8
Thanks so much, Otaku. That's very informative. so watermelon is usually NC...
What about "fish"? Since it's eaten entirely by a single person in Japan..... maybe we can make exception and say, "I bought some fishes?"............ still sounds weird, eh.
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Post by Otaku on Nov 25, 2008 18:18:46 GMT 8
Thanks so much, Otaku. That's very informative. so watermelon is usually NC... What about "fish"? Since it's eaten entirely by a single person in Japan..... maybe we can make exception and say, "I bought some fishes?"............ still sounds weird, eh. Fish is even easier because it can be both. English speakers will usually say the plural of 'fish' is 'fish'...however, 'fishes' is technically correct, also. Look it up in a dictionary. So, I would say let your students decide which one they like...
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Post by junkdna on Nov 26, 2008 7:58:45 GMT 8
Here's how I could count my food:
NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM!
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Post by Otaku on Nov 26, 2008 9:03:18 GMT 8
...get out of Jpaan!
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Post by raindrop on Nov 26, 2008 10:07:41 GMT 8
could my food?
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Post by junkdna on Nov 27, 2008 7:37:09 GMT 8
smartasses. thank your lucky stars i already exalted redpanda a minute or two ago.
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