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Post by Otaku on Nov 25, 2008 22:24:14 GMT 8
Okay, so Englipedia has forum. It was started to improve the communication between the people building it and you all. Somehow it spread out to talking about teaching, the textbooks and plain ranting about everyday life.
Being a website builder, I constantly go out and find all there is in cyberspace in the area of ESL/EFL because I want to make sure the people using Englipedia have the best resource as possible. I know every single ALT website in Japan and belong to over 25 different ALT forums....hence, 'Otaku'.
However, along my journeys through cyberspace, I've had this a small question that has been growing larger over the past 6 months, especially with more and more EFL/ESL websites emerging: Why are there so many ALT websites/forums on the internet?
I understand that each prefecture should have a website and/or forum for that particular prefecture's local events, issues, talk, etc...but my question is why do almost all of these websites/forums have a section on 'Classroom Games/Activities'?
One of the reasons I started Englipedia was because I hated visiting a dozen of websites trying to find a good idea. I wanted to go to one place to look for teaching activities/ideas.
Granted, I've received submissions from ALTs & PAs who are also a part of their own local community but what I'm wondering is why ALT websites keep popping up, especially JET ALT sites/forums? Why can't JET ALT sites get on the same page? I would think the most simple idea to hook all the prefectures together via JET would be to have one 'mother website' and to have ONE library on the site to house ALL of the ALT ideas. But no, there are 35+ JET ALT websites with over half of them having their own 'Teaching Resource' area. WHY??
I'm not saying it's a bad thing for these sites to have a teaching section because like Diesel (moderator) said to me one time, "More websites are good...not bad. It means there is more information for people to look at." However, what I'm finding with most of the teaching resources on these sites is they are just lessons which are poorly written and have no rhyme or order to finding what you are looking for on them.
The Sendai website was, I think, the first website to present a rough grammar map of a couple of the textbooks (Sunshine and New Horizon). Englipedia was the first website to take that idea to the next level and link all the textbooks together so it made it unimportant which textbook you used at school, you could still search the site via your own school's textbook. However, what I've been noticing is with the except to Hyogo, Fukui and a couple of other JET-sponsored ALT sites, most ALT websites/forums offer nothing more than a bandage of lesson ideas, most are just randomly scattered throughout the site and/or forum. Englipedia took Sendai's idea to the next level; who's going to take Englipedia's idea to the next level?
How much more separation does one occupation (ALT) in Japan need from each other? Why can't ALT websites/forums get on the same page with each other and talk about building one or two Japan-wide ALT resource websites, instead of every prefecture having their own teaching resource? This was one of the reasons behind building Englipedia, but it really doesn't mean anything if there isn't any consenus about everybody working together. I'm not belittling the effort of the volunteers who are making enormous efforts to help build Englipedia. The question that has been going through my head for awhile now is why are there so many independent projects going on, when, to me, it looks like many of them are the same projects?
BTW, a special thanks goes out to Joyce, Raegina, Satoru, Masami, Fiona, Roger, Matt, Tatyana, Kelsey and Franchesca for dropping some serious volunteer time to helping out with the site. There are quite a few more names but these are the people who have spent a substantial amount of time helping out with the project. Thanks! And, thanks to the rest of you for your continued support.
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Post by junkdna on Nov 26, 2008 7:57:01 GMT 8
Why are there so many?
I think the reason is several-fold: 1) people just don't do their homework when it comes to research, 2) people don't know how to properly search the Internet for such things, 3) other sites are shitty, and 4) people are snotty, selfish assholes who don't want to play by other people's rules, so they make their own instead.
I totally agree with you. There really only needs to be one site. Continue with your site the way it is, and I guarantee you will suck the life out of the shitty sites within the next couple of years. People know good when they see it.
BTW, don't thank the guy who gave you the idea for the site. =P
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Post by jed on Nov 26, 2008 14:52:54 GMT 8
Yes, I agree with most of the above, it must be a mixture of reasons
I think a lot of ALTs just don't bother to search (junkdna's 1st point) and another reason is probably that a lot of ALTs don't physically get together to verbally share info (like site URLs) and another thing is probably due to the shear numbers of ALTs, there are so many??
hhmmm?
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Post by gsuiris on Nov 26, 2008 16:18:53 GMT 8
I think it is
1. Lack of searching 2. Lack of communication between ALTs 3. (I know I may get flamed for this, but I have to say it) the fact that some ALTs look down on others and may not want to share with them 4. Control - they want the power
I know some ALT sites start as the JET blocks or whatever and those people talk about the matters related to them. They then move to posting worksheets and get lazy or something and don't post elsewhere.
This site is the easiest to search and find things, plus it has more than all of the others I have looked at. Some sites do have useful worksheets, but more often than not I find something better here.
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Post by Otaku on Nov 26, 2008 20:48:12 GMT 8
Some sites do have useful worksheets... HERE! HERE! I'm always finding great ideas with cool activities. Sometimes, I'll go ask the person who made the activity if they would mind submitting the game to Englipedia. Usually, once they see how easy it is to submit things to the site, they have no qualms about doing it. Some of those people have even continued submitting, which I thought was pretty cool. I've thought about trying to take a more proactive stance to trying to unite one massive resource but like many of you have already said, when I've hinted at the idea nobody wants to work together. A lot of website owners have an idea about where they want to take their sites and I think many people are just stubborn to give up a little bit of the power they have for the greater good of the community. I've even offered other website owners 'project manager' status where they could work on the site as freely as they wanted but I was turned down. A part of me can't blame them because if somebody came to me and wanted me to give up everything I've built to join another project, I would most likely say no, also. I think Gsuiris brings up a good point, I think a lot of people start building and become burnt out or realize the ALT position is just a short-term gig and eventually fizzle out. I don't know, does anybody else have ideas how we could start bringing more and more ideas together? Don't get me wrong, if nobody submitted anything else to Englipedia for 6 months, I would still be posting activities. I usually push regular posters and site submitters' activities to the front of the uploading line. I just think it would be cool to have a bigger community of submitters. Yeah, there are over 40 active volunteers helping who are currently helping out but there's over 10,000 ALTs in Japan...
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Post by junkdna on Nov 27, 2008 7:33:18 GMT 8
correction: over 9,999 ALTs--and 1 grumpy old fart--in Japan...
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Post by matt on Nov 27, 2008 13:32:02 GMT 8
The reason I think there are so many sites is because, like has been mentioned above, there isn't real good communication among ALTs all over the country. But to go on with this, what I think happens is that a lot of people have the same great idea: why not build a site for everyone to share/upload ideas? Once they work on it and realize the amount of time required to build something like this, then they give up. I think mostly because they have figured out their own routine with their schools and have 'enough' teaching ideas. By the time this happens, they get tired of the job and being treated like a monkey, and decide that the status quo is good enough. Next year there'll be another ALT to up up with s***, and they can start their own website. So you see, I think it's a vicious cycle. If only other ALTs simply knew about Englipedia and what it offered, then it wouldn't be such a big deal, fewer people would start another website, and more people would submit to Englipedia instead of building their own.
Perhaps if there was some way to target new ALTs all over Japan with letting them know about Englipedia? One idea would be to have some kind of advertising at the Orientation Conference for new JETs, ya' know, when they arrive in Tokyo. There could be some one (or a group of people) who put up a table. (Ok, that'll take a up a lot of work). Or, perhaps someone could go and simply hand out post cards with information about Englipedia on it. This way, people have something useful they can take with them to their various kens. So when they are bombarded with having to do a bunch of games and stuff at their schools and don't have a clue, they have the Englipedia website. Something else that can be done is to get people's email addresses at the Tokyo Orientation Confernece, and then email them a mass email with a link (but again, a lot of work). Just a few ideas to throw around. Perhaps someone can improve on them?
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Post by Otaku on Nov 27, 2008 14:26:20 GMT 8
This thread was started to focus on Englipedia but it seems to be steering that way...
Matt, I launched a huge PR campaign back in April of this year. I sent out over 400 emails to different website owners, forums, PA, etc. The results were pretty good.
What I don't usually talk about because it would probably just bore people is that a link for Englipedia is not only on EVERY ALT forum, I think, across Japan but the peeps heading up the JET Program website/forum in Tokyo sent an email out to every PA across Japan about Englipedia. The site is also featured on prominent websites like AJET, MES-English, Genki English, JETAA websites in NewYork & Australia, and almost all prefectural ALT websites in Japan.
I've put the word out but since then, I keep on seeing same-ol' same-ol' sites popping up and I can't for the life of me understand why.
In other news, I recently posted a thread over on the JET Program's forum asking them if they have plans or thoughts about making a push in the future to link JET-affiliated websites and/or forums together to try and increase the effectiveness and ease of communication over prefectural lines. Still no reply...
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Post by matt on Nov 27, 2008 15:02:47 GMT 8
well that's the thing to do...I didn't know you had sent out so many emails and such. Perhaps it's something that will only come with time. There could be any number of reasons why people keep making their own sites. Perhaps they just want practice because they plan on going into some kind of web development when they get back home...who knows? But if you keep putting the word out, then eventually more and more people will catch on.
One I thing I do like is having the rating system in the volunteers section. It gives me a goal to try to submit more, because then I get more ninja stuff. Perhaps if there was something else to add to the system regarding volunteers. Perhaps you can have some kind of 'battle royale' or something, where in a certain time period volunteers race to submit the best/most/most creative/highest rated/etc. games and activities. The winner can receive some kind of special prize-icon that fits next to their name. If these contests are hosted say, two, three, or four times a year, perhaps it's something that might catch on and bring other submitters into the fold...?
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Post by Otaku on Nov 27, 2008 16:04:52 GMT 8
Matt, your last idea was actually a really good idea! When I get a little bit more time, I'll have to sit down and map out the plan.
I'm glad you like the new rating system! I spent WAY too much time hammering out it, so I'm glad it is appreciated!
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Post by MES Mark on Nov 29, 2008 22:13:07 GMT 8
I said I wouldn' Patrick, but here goes .... Why don't we just make one bar in town and everyone can hang out there? Why do we need all these different bars, pubs, cafes ... Why doesn't everyone just wear clothes from UNIQLO? UNIQLO makes great, cheap, fashionable clothes. We could all just go there. Who needs all these other places ... Have I made my point yet? there are two sides: the creators' side who wants to do something different, they aren't satisfied with what's out there, they don't agree with what's out there or they just want to have a place that represents them (where it may be just a Nagano JET forum, but hey, he said Nagano, Woo-hoo!) and the people who feel more comfortable in one place more than another. Eglipedia won't be the site for everyone and you just have to realise that. There is no ultimate teaching site for everyone and for all needs. There are huge sites that have been around more than a decade. They have professional teams working for them and they are everything to everybody in their field. My post isn't meant to say 'throw in the towel', but rather, just build your site and make it the best it can be. Some people will like it and some will like another place better for reasons that are beyond your control. Maybe you just aren't understood in your time ...
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Post by monkeydude on Dec 1, 2008 10:54:02 GMT 8
I totally agree with you Mes mark!.. With everything, there is going to be competition. No matter what you do with your site there will always be someone starting a new website. Ifve developed websites for various companies in the past and some for the same genre. Youfre never going to get just one website for all the games and one website that everyone will go too; itfs just up to peoples preferences. I know that Englipedia has a lot of resources, and many times it has save me from many under pressure last minuet moments, having said that I still go to other sites to browse their games. What I would do is work on promoting the site, if you want I can design your flyers or e cards that you can send out. But no matter what you do there will always be competition.
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Post by junkdna on Dec 2, 2008 8:00:12 GMT 8
Sounds like a good idea, then I would know which bar to avoid.
All my clothes ARE from UNIQLO and all my home items from MUJI. I hate "brand" names.
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Post by matt on Dec 2, 2008 14:23:48 GMT 8
There will always be competition, simply for the reason that some people like the color blue better than the color red. But I think that Otaku's idea for starting a website was not that it was the end-all-be-all of all ALT websites, but rather, there are a ton of great games and ideas that people have that they want to share (otherwise why would they bother starting a site of their own?), and instead of making their website (which they have the right to) and having to manage it, why not simply submit it to a bigger site with more reach to more people? Perhaps there are people who want to share info/games/ideas and don't know about a site such as Englipedia, and feel that they have to start a site of their own in order to do something like this. I don't know Otaku's mind, but it just seems like an obvious idea to me, instead of some accusation of trying to dominate the ALT world with a boring site.
The reason I don't like other sites, especially the huge sites that have been around more than a decade and have professional teams working for them and they are everything to everybody in their field is because of just that- they are so huge and so general that in order to find what I am looking for would simply take too much time. When I need a fresh game for a certain grammar point, and I start looking on the Internet for one, I don't want to find site that says that's it's for teaching English in Japan, but then when I click on it it's full of cluttered ads and tons of links to various stuff and nothing that seems related to what I need. It takes too much time just to find out that a site doesn't have the information I am looking for....clicking on too many links to find out that it only deals with teaching English in Japan to adults, and not in the public jr. high schools. At least if somebody stumbles across Englipedia, they can quickly see what the site is about and who it's for. And there are different ways to find what I am looking for. Brand name or not, if something works, it works. I don't look at Englipedia when I am at home, unless I post something on the forums. But rather, I leave it up at work, and when I need a game in a pinch, I can find it quickly, on a clean screen, instead of one full of ads. I think that more people out there would agree if they were presented with Englipedia and other sites. Perhaps that's why it's growing.
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Post by redpanda on Feb 2, 2009 9:35:24 GMT 8
I really didn't know there were so many sites. I think it's because I'm an old-timer. I don't immerse myself in my job. I spend a lot more time on ESPN and Youtube, for example, than these sites. I think Japan is full of "new" teachers who are so incredibly gung ho.
I like this site because I can find an idea for a specific lesson quickly as opposed to Dave's ESL cafe which has a lot of good ideas, but I look at it and think "When should I use this?" and then I say, "Screw it, I'll just go over to that Englipedia."
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