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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 8:32:24 GMT 8
For all of you out there studying Japanese, I just found a really neat trick quite by accident, in regards to the ALC site.
If you don't know ALC (http://www.alc.co.jp/index.html) already, you are missing out. There's a J-E/E-J translation tool at the top of the site page. Type in either language, and you get results (most of the time).
Unfortunately, it's geared toward Japanese people so there are no readings for kanji, or so I thought. Now I don't know if this is by design or accident (though I am leaning toward accident), by you can 'recover' the readings of the kanji for some words. HUH!?
It's easier to understand if I walk you through it.
1) Go to the page (http://www.alc.co.jp/index.html)
2) Type in the word 'autism' (withou the 's)
3) You will be presented with information. For example: autism y–¼z Ž©•ÂÇ
4) Highlight the kanji 'Ž©•ÂÇ ' AND INCLUDE THE SPACE AFTER IT
5) Copy and paste it into a browser, email, or note program: Ž©•ÂÇo‚¶‚Ö‚¢‚µ‚傤p
6) Bingo, instant reading for the kanji, which is JIHEISHOU for autism.
NOTE: Making this work is TRICKY. It doesn't work for all kanji, especially kanji in the middle of a sentence. I suggest including hiragana AFTER the word you are trying to find the reading to in your copy and paste. Here are a few results I was able to come up with:
‹N‚±‚·
ˆø‚«‹N‚±‚·
¬Ž™Ž©•ÂÇo‚µ‚傤‚É ‚¶‚Ö‚¢‚µ‚傤p
”Œ©o‚Í‚Á‚¯‚ñp‚·‚é
¬Ž™Ž©•ÂÇo‚µ‚傤‚É ‚¶‚Ö‚¢‚µ‚傤pA
Ž©•ÂÇo‚¶‚Ö‚¢‚µ‚傤p‚ð
Ž©•ÂÇ‚Æ
Œ´ˆöo‚°‚ñ‚¢‚ñp‚Å‚ ‚é
Those without readings after are FAILED readings.
So what does this mean? It means that you have one more possible little trick out there for finding ways to read kanji. It's not going to be 100% useful, and I don't know that I would go about bragging about it to everyone you know, but... it is what it is. I hope you find some use for it in your studies.
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Post by gumby on Apr 3, 2008 8:43:35 GMT 8
junkDNA, great site. If you wanted to know how to read all the kanji, you can just copy the entire link to that page and go to popjisyo.com copy the link to the first 'url' link at the top of the page, choose Japanese to English and then click translate (these buttons are in Japanese) then put the cursor over what you want to know and it should come up. By the way, it is true! Someone can actually have negative karma. Congrats!
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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 8:54:40 GMT 8
Popjisyo.com... interesting.
Oh hey, I had something like -6 before. Then all the goodie two-shoes on the site felt sorry for me or something and boosted me. =P
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Post by raindrop on Apr 3, 2008 9:04:29 GMT 8
Yes, ALC is a great site, and I've been using it for quite some time now (to learn English) . I love the online dictionary there, it's really awesome! They have got slang and everything there. Very creative way to study Japanese, junkdna. sugoi.
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Post by Otaku on Apr 3, 2008 11:31:01 GMT 8
Am I the only person that tries NOT to learn Japanese? My method for studying is to ignore it as long as possible until I HAVE TO learn it. I think I'm namakemono.
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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 11:39:09 GMT 8
I'm studying translation right now. Obviously I come across new vocab all the time.
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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 11:43:09 GMT 8
Yes, ALC is a great site, and I've been using it for quite some time now (to learn English) . I love the online dictionary there, it's really awesome! They have got slang and everything there. Very creative way to study Japanese, junkdna. sugoi. It is a good site. I use it constantly in my studies. Too bad it assumes that only Japanese will use it. I think that ALC would benefit greatly from increased users if they included kanji readings. After all, we all know that not all Japanese people can read all kanji, so wouldn't including those readings be beneficial to Japanese users too? One would think so. *shrug* Just my thoughts. Perhaps you can raise this issue with them raindrop. =)
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Post by gumby on Apr 3, 2008 12:11:00 GMT 8
Am I the only person that tries NOT to learn Japanese? My method for studying is to ignore it as long as possible until I HAVE TO learn it. I think I'm namakemono. I studied Japanese for 5 years in university. My Kanji class was a waste of time. The teacher went in order, so I counted the students in front of me and worked only on 'MY' problem. Lucky if I remembered more than a handful of Kanji. I crammed for the JPLT1 exam, passed the exam and instantly forgot what I learned. The best way by far for me was reading. I picked an interesting book that had furigana and just dove in. Helped incredibly for kanji, grammar, and even those pesky wa, o, ga, de critters. I don't need all the evidence of the effectiveness of extensive reading. I believe it because it worked for me. (Just make sure the book is easy. Start off too hard and you lose confidence fast. Research suggests the best books are those that you can understand 90% of the content)
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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 12:30:26 GMT 8
I read a lot of Japanese novels too. But I perfer sci-fi books, so I have no choice but to force myself to read the hard stuff. I've read DIRTY PAIR and GHOST IN THE SHELL novels, along with some horror stuff in the ¢‚É‚àŠï–‚È•¨Œê vain. Good stuff, but yeah, not for beginners. Some good stuff for medium level readers are books based on scripts. I read the LAIN script book. Pretty damn interesting. Took me several months to finish way back in the day, but I am sure I could race through it now. Really good for descriptions because that's all it is. ⓹‚̉º‚Å—F’B‚ð‘Ò‚Á‚Ă郌ƒCƒ“, et al.
JLPT... already have level 2. No point in going for 1 when my skills are so obvious. /toot
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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 12:33:30 GMT 8
How long you been in J-land gumby?
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Post by gumby on Apr 3, 2008 12:45:22 GMT 8
How long you been in J-land gumby? If I were born here, I would have been a ‚ZŽóŒ±¶last month.
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Post by raindrop on Apr 3, 2008 13:06:54 GMT 8
I'm studying translation right now. Obviously I come across new vocab all the time. Wow.. very impressive. You know, I've been 'trying' to study translation, but I get lazy..... I need to decipline myself. I would like to be an interpreter at some point, but I need lots of training. Thinking of going to this school in Fukuoka once a week but it takes 9 hrs round trip on a bus. Not sure if I can do it. hmmm.... but knowing that you guys are also studying another language so hard motivates me!
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Post by junkdna on Apr 3, 2008 13:56:03 GMT 8
Check out MRI's translation/interpretation courses. Good people. That's where I am doing my study. www.mri-trans.com/
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 16, 2008 8:01:21 GMT 8
Are you guys aware of WWWJDIC? That's where I go for my online dictionary needs, it's really extensive and geared towards native English speakers. They have a feature where you can put buttons on your browser for J-E and E-J word searches: www.wwwjdic.comjunk you do MRI over the internet? How is that?
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 16, 2008 8:33:57 GMT 8
I use a build of jdic actually, I like it better. www.jisho.org I switched after a batsu-ed find on JDIC. If you type in "partner" in the E to J search box, instead of coming up ‘ŠŽè as might be expected i got a surprise word. ‚ª‚ñ‚µ‚á feel free to look that one up. As the first response. Switched after that.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 16, 2008 8:35:52 GMT 8
of course finding that word led to many a joke of adding ‚Ñ‚Á‚‚è to various ’PŒês for hai-larious results.
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 16, 2008 9:15:08 GMT 8
Oh nice, I'll check that out. JDIC always seemed the best but I was always frustrated with the lack of filter for endless string of obscure, obscure definitions.
Although honestly I bought a “dŽqŽ«‘ a little while ago and I've been perfectly happy using that.
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 16, 2008 9:26:34 GMT 8
Haha not to bash your site or anything but I just tried it with the "partner" test and the first word that came up was "タチ"... "dominant partner of a homosexual relationship." 相手 was 8 entries down.
I guess it's just hard to come up with a dictionary that has everything you might want and also good at finding what you need.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 16, 2008 9:55:10 GMT 8
Yea really, hmm I wonder what other seemingly innocent words can be found that give awfully dirt...i mean funny responses. Maybe we should have a contest...
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 16, 2008 12:20:46 GMT 8
Any contest would be quickly dominated by your original find for "partner" in WWWJDIC. There's really no topping that word, at least that I can imagine.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 16, 2008 12:28:46 GMT 8
yea that word is kind of an end-all...still can't believe that was the first response though...
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Post by junkdna on Apr 17, 2008 7:37:33 GMT 8
WWWJDIC is a nice tool, but it does have its flaws being participant-built. If you find mistakes or problems, you should contact Jim and let him know. To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with the ordering of 'partner', the database isn't orientated in any specific order and who's to say 'aite' is correct as the first definition. 'Partner' is not exclusively 'aite' after all. Just like the Japanese word 'osoroshii' pulls up a bunch of definitions. Who's to say what the definition order should be when it means so many different things in different situations. While I certainly will add www.jisho.org/ to my list (I have about 5 places I use now), it doesn't mean I think that WWWJDIC is wrong. In fact, I offered Jim up some advice on his site last month, and he's been working on making it happen. So change is possible, you just have to let him know what's going on. Same as any site. You know what *I* wish I had... an electronic dictionary that could go online, download new definitions, and then allow me to input my own as well, in a user dictionary. AND allow for scanning of kanji to bring up a reading for it. Here we are--2008--and I still have to look up kanji by hand, or ask my wife. *shrug* Alos, would LOVE a pen that scanned kanji and gave JUST the reading on a display on the side of the pen. That would be PHAT.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 17, 2008 8:01:35 GMT 8
Well with the already impressive scanning technology Japan employs with just about everything elsse, the only reason they prolly haven't done what you want already is because they don't see a market for it. I mean my freakin keitai can scan kanji and tell the furigana reading for it. Not to mention the 90 quadrillion other things it can do. So I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to take the technology out of that and implant it somewhere else say a pen, or maybe even eyeglasses or contact lenses (wouldn't that be cool)... As for user dictionaries and such since the tech already exists to add and save user inputed info to different places, i can't imagine it would be too difficult moving that application to a denshi jisho. But like I said before, the companies in charge of making the dictionaries prolly don't see a big enough profit margin in that. While it would be great for the free thinking gaijin market like us, since we're constantly learning new words or new slang or anything. I can't imagine the common japanese person who buys one would ever think to use that function simply because the only English they learn, unless their: A) an expat in a foreign country. B)surrounded by gaijin in a company where daily contact and communication is required. C) A foregin language teacher continually trying to improve their skill. or D)a japanese person who happens to be friends with a bunch of obnoxious ALTs who continually teach him/her the dregs of the English language from whatever country they hail from. (And we're a mighty varied bunch... ;D
The online thing is soon to come, i mean everything is online...Even my Nintendo DS which i haven't bought yet is online.
But the thing I'm ultimately waiting for isn't any uber sweet dictionary with online and translation capabilities. I want the little chip they impant in your brain to just let you understand everything anybody says. Take that you lousy foreigners who speak about me behind my back! I got a brain chip...must kill sarah conners...
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Post by junkdna on Apr 17, 2008 9:22:43 GMT 8
cell phones can scan and deliver furigana readings? I've not heard of this function. please divulge.
and please don't ever call me 'gaijin' again. i dislike the term with a passion. my personal pref. call me expat, call me american, call yourself gaijin, but don't ever call ME gaijin.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 17, 2008 9:39:16 GMT 8
k...
Anyway, yea, my docomo keitai has a function for scanning kanji. SH903iTV, I found while fiddling with the one of 3 different menu options i have. You have to be extremely exacting with how you scan the kanji but it eventually i managed to scan one and gave me the furigana reading.
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 17, 2008 9:48:55 GMT 8
Yeah my keitai can "read" too but it's quite a process and takes way too long to be of any actual use.
The new breed of “d’rŽ«‘ CAN actually connect to your computer and get updates, and most now come with a touchpad and a pen with which you can hand-enter kanji if you don't know the reading. At least, mine does those things and it's completely erased any need for other dictionaries, really. And it's nothing special, just a Casio EX-word I bought at the local Joshin.
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Post by junkdna on Apr 17, 2008 10:37:15 GMT 8
Can you input your own words GOB?
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Post by grumpyoldbastard on Apr 23, 2008 13:58:04 GMT 8
Not that I've figured out, but the manual is a couple hundred pages so that might be in there somewhere.
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yopparaisaru
Englipedia Fana
I drink copious amounts of fire and piss excellence
Posts: 312
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Post by yopparaisaru on Apr 24, 2008 7:47:52 GMT 8
Well at least you know if the manual is in ridiculously complicated kanji you use your handy-dandy keitai kanji reader to help you translate so you can then use the input your own words function for the “dŽqŽ«‘...for more over-complicated affects.
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Post by rollypop on May 21, 2008 14:29:37 GMT 8
Still not as good as the ‘ŠŽè mistranslation...but for a sakubun when I was in school I wrote that I was very excited to study abroad in Japan... teacher pulled me aside and explained to me that I had use the wrong kind of "excited". I love Jim Breen but it`s like anything...fact-check if it`s something serious. Pen dictionary? They exist. kanjireader.net/Doesn`t work for handwriting, but still nothing to sneeze at.
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